Axel Kicillof: “Carolina Píparo has no knowledge of the province of Buenos Aires”

Diego Iglesias interviewed the governor and candidate Axel Kicillof

-What was the first thing you thought when the images of Martín Insaurralde on a yacht in the Mediterranean Sea were spread?

-The first thing was to look for him to ask him if that was true, because now there is a lot of fake news. I called Martín and he told me that that photo wasn’t from now, but he told me it was true. From that, in a very short time we came to the conclusion that he had to resign and I accepted his resignation. I am not going to do marketing with honesty, that now the corresponding people will be in charge in the corresponding areas.

-Why do you say about honesty?

-Because I don’t do this to differentiate myself or to make a flag. It is not exclusive to me and my group and I point out everything else by contrast. That’s what I mean.

-But do you see it as a serious fact?

-Of course yes. We are also discussing behaviors. And it seems to me that how I acted expresses what I feel.

-Why did you accept his resignation and not fire him?

-We had talks about it, so it’s not one thing or the other. It had to happen and it happened.

-Where does Cristina have to be in the campaign in the province of Buenos Aires?

-Very close. Cristina is the most important political leader that Argentina has today and she is very close, that is what is happening.

The Buenos Aires governor spoke about the Insaurralde case
The Buenos Aires governor spoke about the Insaurralde case

-In her last public appearance, Cristina said: “I want to apologize if we could not comply.” Why does she end up asking for forgiveness?

-Because the government is from the Frente de Todos, and even though we are now Union for the Homeland, we must take charge, look in the face and tell what could not be done, what was done wrong and what was done. good.

-In other words, expectations were not met…

-I think it was not well communicated what we could aspire to and what the dimension of the problems we had was. And in the middle of that also came the pandemic that complicated everything. When the pandemic ended, everyone thought “well, now we are going to be the same as in December 2015,” as if the Macri Government had not passed, as if it had not left us the debt. And obviously there were diverse internal positions regarding what to do in different very complicated and unprecedented scenarios.

-Did the permanent intern affect management?

-It was not an intern because of the charge, they were also discussions about points of view. And it is logical, because this is a coalition, there is not much experience of a coalition government, but this was a coalition government. What happens if you want to do something and I really believe that you have to do something else. Suppose you decide and I also have to express it because we are different and it is not bad for that to be the case.

-A few weeks ago you said: “We are going to have to compose a new song, not one that we all know.” A few days ago Cristina said: “We have to discuss things that we have often refused to discuss.” They said the same thing, but in a different way, and yet, in Kirchnerism, they treated you like Rodrigo De Paul treated anyone who touches Messi. Because?

-Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. What I am saying, very specifically, is that there is a sector of society that has other sensibilities or other concerns. Not only is he not voting for us, I think he is not even listening to us. We have to reach those sectors and not by lying, not by inventing something that we are not, but by being who we are, but also having a greater capacity to empathize with those sectors.

-Speaking of songs, let’s move on to “One that we all know.” To a part of the popular sectors that previously voted for you and now vote for Milei, you sing to them like Ricky: “Come back, my life is gone without you.”

-(Laughs) I don’t know if this is what we have to tell them, but rather: what they need from us. But we have to go, talk, and explain what we are, what we are for, what we want to do and how we can give them an answer and commit to complying.

"It was not an intern for the position, they were also discussions about points of view"said Kicillof regarding the differences in the Frente de Todos
“It was not an intern for the position, they were also discussions about points of view,” said Kicillof regarding the differences in the Frente de Todos

-If you detect that there are mayors in the province of Buenos Aires who distribute by cutting the ballot, do you sing to them: “You are behaving badly, you will be punished”?

-(Laughs) It’s not something that happened. I do believe that there is a strong militancy for the complete ballot and that there is an understanding that a municipality cannot be governed if in the province you have an adjustment policy, if the works, the infrastructure, are finished. If a mayor wins, but does not do everything possible to support the provincial and national ticket, I do not know how he will do either.

-Let’s go with the last of the songs, this one is by Wos: “And now they look ugly. We are not part of your Colosseum. We don’t do what they want, so they look ugly.” Do you sing this to La Cámpora?

-No, quite the opposite. La Cámpora is a historically very exciting political experience. And a key in any of the upcoming scenarios is unity. In the province of Buenos Aires I see that this is how we have been operating.

-Winning an election with 124.4% year-on-year inflation is more difficult than: A) The bond between Alberto and Cristina. B) The relationship between you and La Cámpora. C) That Macri does not throw crosses at Milei. D) Govern the province of Buenos Aires.

-The D. I think that governing the province of Buenos Aires in any situation is complex. What we need is for Sergio to be president. I need there to be a national government that doesn’t do crazy things.

-What are the three issues that you would focus on in your second term if you are re-elected?

-The same as in the first: health, education and security.

The provincial president, who is seeking re-election, spoke about an eventual second term
The provincial president, who is seeking re-election, spoke about an eventual second term

-And in terms of health, what would you improve?

-In deepening the integration of the system and digitizing it further. Health economics is not a market, this is a message for Milei: it is not a market like selling socks or underwear. First, because you don’t decide what to buy, a doctor decides. Second, because in general the one who finances is different from the one who executes, so it has many particularities. Now, the truth is that there is a waste of resources. The market misallocates resources in health, everyone knows this except libertarians. The private sector does not work well in health anywhere in the world because it does not provide prevention, because it is also dedicated to what is most profitable, which is complexity or hospitalization. There are clinics that are five-star hotels, but the quality of medical services is better in the public hospital, which may not have hotel conditions. How do we distribute those resources that already exist in a better way? That is integrating the health system. That is the way. There’s a lot missing.

-And regarding education, what would you do?

-Keep rebuilding. When we arrived, the schools were a maintenance disaster. Many gas installations without registered oil to enable them, electrified walls, masonry that was falling, ceilings that leaked, a disaster. A system that is immense: every day 5,200,000 students go to primary school (kindergarten, primary and secondary school) in the province, two entire Uruguays. That is what the health system of the province of Buenos Aires manages. So, faced with this situation, we launched a program called “Schools to work”, to fix all the schools, so that at least there would be no risk of accident, for those who work or are going to study. This program has already completed more than 6,100 works. When we arrived there was no list of the building situation of the schools, we had to do a census of the buildings, where they were and how they were. At the same time, teacher salaries. Vidal had been cruel to the teachers. A very strong attack on public schools.

The other day we celebrated 201 new schools. Vidal had closed 33 rural schools because they had low enrollment. We opened them, but we also built 201 new buildings. In addition, we reopened 400 schools and built about 850 classrooms. But we are also totally changing teacher training, discussing things, pedagogical issues and programs in all schools in the province.

-In terms of security, would you keep Sergio Berni at the head of the ministry?

-Sergio is a candidate for senator today. I thought his performance was excellent. Obviously we will have to speak as such, but he is a candidate for provincial senator.

-Let’s go now with “The emoji question. How would you define Carolina Píparo?

The emoji response about Carolina Píparo
The emoji response about Carolina Píparo

-What did you mean by this?

-It seems to me that you do not have a very close and adequate knowledge of the province of Buenos Aires.

-How would you define Néstor Grindetti with emojis?

Kicillof's response to Grindetti
Kicillof’s response to Grindetti

-What does it mean?

-(Laughs) Twice worried. In the case of Grindetti, he is part of a political group, which is the Macrismo, the Vidal government, his mayoralty in Lanús. In other words, they do know what they do when they govern.

-I am going to ask you to define the following political leaders in one word. Mauricio Macri.


-Victoria Villarruel.


-Alberto Fernandez.


-Sergio Massa.

-Next president.

-They are two words.

-(Laughs) Next.

-Patricia Bullrich

-If I say a word and I get stuck, does it help?

-Let’s close with “For Kids”. I ask you to respond as if you were doing it for little 6-year-old boys and girls. How would you describe Javier Milei?

-It is someone who comes to explain to you how to win a game that you really like, who has never played it, and what he gives you is a magic recipe that does not exist in the game.

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